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  1. #1
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    30+ ppl killed at Virginia Tech university

    Gunman kills 30 at US university

    Wounded girl being carried by police
    The campus has now been closed and students evacuated

    Scene of shootings
    At least 31 people have been killed and 10 injured after a gunman went on the rampage at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia, US.

    Police say there were two separate shooting incidents - at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a student dormitory, and Norris Hall, an engineering building.

    The incidents were about two hours apart. Police say they believe there was one gunman and that he is dead.

    It is the deadliest shooting at a US educational facility.

    The state university in the town of Blacksburg is home to 26,000 students.
    From BBC

    Another horrible shooting.
    "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." / Carl Sagan

  2. #2
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    i guess the united states should finally realize that a change for weapon possessions law should be done. also to look behind the things why the shooter got on a rampage.

    at the end they might just say that the problem didn't lay in the gun policies and social environment of the shooter, then rather it was a problem of viewing violent movies and video games

  3. #3
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    lol was just about to say that. some socially retarded poor guy doesnt get goot environment to live in and when he grows up, he kills whole class of his. Lets not blame people, lets blame movies and games *thumbs down*

    btw our news say "only" 20+ ....
    Me angry! Where´s my food!

    My DVD Collection, My Blu-ray collection

  4. #4
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    It's not like the video games pulled the trigger.
    http://web.sm3thegame.com/media/2502/2863/9999999/BannerPassContest1.gif

  5. #5
    j7wild Guest
    I don't believe in Gun Control because what it does is keep firearms out of Law Abiding Citizens and prevent them from protecting themselves from Criminals who have firearms.


  6. #6
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    Dr. Roth argues that "Self-defense is commonly cited as a reason to own a gun. This is the explanation given by 20 percent of all gun owners and 40 percent of all handgun owners contacted for a household survey conducted in 1979. (Decision-Making Information, Inc., Attitudes of the American Electorate Toward Gun Control, Santa Ana, California: Decision-Making Information, Inc., 1979).

    But research has shown that a gun kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of the household, or friend, than an intruder. (Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm Related Deaths in the Home." The New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 314, no. 24, June 1986, pp. 1557-60.) The use of a firearm to resist a violent assault actually increases the victim's risk of injury and death (FE Zimring, Firearms, violence, and public policy, Scientific American, vol. 265, 1991, p. 48).

    --

    A study of 743 gunshot deaths by Dr. Arthur Kellermann and Dr. Donald Reay published in The New England Journal of Medicine found that 84% of these homicides occurred during altercations in the home. Only 2 of the 743 gunshot deaths occurring in the home involved an intruder killed during an attempted entry, and only 9 of the deaths were determined by police/courts to be justified (FE Zimring, Firearms, violence, and public policy, Scientific American, vol. 265, 1991, p. 48). The evidence revealed in the Kellermann study is consistent with data reported by the FBI. In 1993, there were 24,526 people murdered, 13,980 with handguns, yet only 251 justifiable homicides by civilians using handguns. (FBI, Crime in the United States: Uniform Crime Reports 1994, 1995).

  7. #7
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    to add more to jpb's comment: re-watch "bowling for colombine"

  8. #8
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    ... and Gus Van Sant's "Elephant"

  9. #9
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    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...armsources.svg

    from wikipedia, under createive commons license.

    As you can see a very small percentage of firearms used in crimes are obtained by means that require any sort of identification.

    The "Family and friends" source clearly shows that we should also punish people who provide someone with a firearm.

    Seeing as only 2% of the weapons were purchased at gun shows an argument that people attending gun shows are crazed psychopaths is invalid.

    It is clear that most crimes are committed with weapons that are not registered to the person using them.

    I believe that irresponsible people should not be able to obtain firearms EVER. That being said if anyone thinks that the people who attend NRA meetings are those people you are clearly wrong. Just because someone owns many guns doesn't mean that they will kill people with them. That "Bowling for Columbine" propaganda bs was a complete fabrication. Please do yourself a favor and not reference something that was about as well researched as a 5th grader's book report.

    I think that people who have never broken any laws, that went to gun safety courses, and have no history of depression or mental problems should have every right to own a gun. Anyone that doesn't fit into this category should never own a gun.

  10. #10
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    I think that people who have never broken any laws, that went to gun safety courses, and have no history of depression or mental problems should have every right to own a gun
    Why?

    If you want home protection, buy an alarm. Get a deadbolt. Get yourself a baseball bat.
    There is NO reason, for anyone who isn't in law enforcement to have a handgun.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake
    I think that people who have never broken any laws, that went to gun safety courses, and have no history of depression or mental problems should have every right to own a gun. Anyone that doesn't fit into this category should never own a gun.
    Those are the ones that left their firearms in a handy place "for protection" and then you hear a 5 year old who shot himself or another with the father's gun. Guns is not a defense weapon, out of 90% of all robberies if the victim pulls out a gun to the robber is not going to end up good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Pierre Bazinet View Post
    Why?

    If you want home protection, buy an alarm. Get a deadbolt. Get yourself a baseball bat.
    There is NO reason, for anyone who isn't in law enforcement to have a handgun.
    I agree 100%.

    Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?

    My DVD Collection

  12. #12
    j7wild Guest
    I have a large collection of firearms including handguns and assault weapons, all purchased legally - from 1985 to 1999 I held a FFL (Federal Firearm License) License for Dealer's sales; I also have a license to carry one on me at anytime; I had my first handgun when my Father bought me a Walther PPK (James Bond Gun) when I was 14 years old and taught me how to properly handle it and fire it.

    In over 28 years of owning a firearm as a civilian, I have never pulled a weapon in anger; never pointed one at anyone and threatening them with deadly force for no reasons at all; never threatened to shoot anyone because I was angry with them or had an argument with them; never shot an innocent animal with one (i.e. rabbit, squirrel, dog, cat) just for the fun of it.

    In my whole life. I only pulled a handgun at someone on 3 separate occasions and that was when I was a Houston Police Officer and it was during the line of duty.

    All my weapons are locked away with ammunition and weapons separate under lock.

    There are a few handguns around the house under lock in keypad safes and no one can access them but my Wife and I.

    Children who have access to their parents or relatives (Uncle, etc) weapons are cases where the parents or the relatives are too irresponsible and too naive to keep the weapons under lock.

    In those case, the adults should be held accountable for the children actions with their weapons and if the children committed a felony with those weapons and they are old enough to be tried as an adult, they should be held accountable also.

  13. #13
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    Guns don't kill poeple, people kill people.....but people with guns kill other people A LOT MORE EASIER.
    I'm a mog, half man, half dog, I am my own best friend.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by j7wild View Post
    In over 28 years of owning a firearm as a civilian, I have never pulled a weapon in anger; never pointed one at anyone and threatening them with deadly force for no reasons at all; never threatened to shoot anyone because I was angry with them or had an argument with them; never shot an innocent animal with one (i.e. rabbit, squirrel, dog, cat) just for the fun of it.
    This was going to be my next argument. Of those of you who do have guns for protection... Have you ever needed to use it? Do you know of anyone else who has? I'm betting the answer is no.
    Which means, the likelyhood of you needing it is slim at best.. and the likelyhood of an accident happening is much higher.

    I give you full credit for keeping it under lock and key and treating it properly. I really do.
    I just really don't buy the protection argument (not just from you.. but from anyone). In my opinion, most collectors think they're cool, and want to own them. That's fine by me, but something should be done to them so that they're never able to fire again. Then you can collect as many as you like.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Pierre Bazinet View Post
    This was going to be my next argument. Of those of you who do have guns for protection... Have you ever needed to use it? Do you know of anyone else who has? I'm betting the answer is no.
    Which means, the likelyhood of you needing it is slim at best.. and the likelyhood of an accident happening is much higher.

    I give you full credit for keeping it under lock and key and treating it properly. I really do.
    I just really don't buy the protection argument (not just from you.. but from anyone). In my opinion, most collectors think they're cool, and want to own them. That's fine by me, but something should be done to them so that they're never able to fire again. Then you can collect as many as you like.
    i would have to disagree with you. just because i have never needed my gun, doesn't mean that i won't have to eventually. i have known a few cops here and there and quite a few of them have said that they have never had to pull a gun on anyone either. but does that mean you would want to be a police man, walking around, without a gun ?? i sure as heck wouldn't want to be. i don't know how much of this is true, so mark this down as heresay, but doesn't england have a ban on guns ?? but i had heard that the gun crime barely went down. becuase all a gun ban does is keep the honest people from having one, criminals will still be able to get guns whether there is a ban or not. in fact, i would be willing to say that a ban on guns would make crimes with guns go up becuase the criminals that can get them, now have free reign and no fear of being shot while robbing someone.

    i understand the mentality of 'banning all guns' becuase of the crimes that happen becuase of them. in that same mentallity, you should also ban all automobiles as well as alcohol too becuase of teh number of drunk driving deaths that happen every year. as well as tobacco and pitbulls. that type of reactive mentallity doens't solve the problem. education and awareness does. taking it away doesn't take away the problem. the problem is not the gun, but the person behind it. guns don't kill people, peopel do. yeah, i know .... we have all heard that one before but it is very true. if Cho was as disturbed as i have been led to believe, then the goal would have been accomplished using other methods. maybe bombs, or poison or something else.

    thankfully, banning guns will never happen here. last i heard, there are 10,000 gun laws on the books (don't quote me on that, just what i read awhile ago). yet not one of them stopped this or any other fatality from happening. the question you need to ask is why ?? how can one more work whereas 10k have not yet.

    i had read that the city of Philadelphia wanted to enable people to sue Smith and Wesson for damages related to murders becuase of their weapons. outside of being the dumbest thing i have ever heard, that is right up there with it. does this mean i can sue Trojan becuase my condom broke and got my girlfriend preganant which meant i lost my wife and now half of my income ?? just a different spin on the same mentality.

    i'm only say this next part as i have not heard from them at all but ....i really believe that the parents are at fault here. i know most won't agree with me but i really do think alot stems from that. outside of the basic survival instincts we all have for being animals (which is what we are), we learn how to interact with people and the basics of right and wrong from ... our parents. a child learns more from the ages of 0-6 than any other time in his/her life, that is a fact. everything else is building upon what they already learned from our parents.

    i also know that people are out there that are wired wrong, but that doesn't happen overnight. there are signs and messages sent long before any violence happens. someone clearly dropped the ball on this kid. from his parents, his peers and his teachers. heck, the teachers were saying that becuase of their rules and policies, they couldn't do anythign but 'suggest' he go to conseling eventhough they all knew something was wrong and had even notified campus security about him. that tells me there is a problem in that school that needs to be addressed. unfortunaly, it takes somethign as sad as this before anything ever happens. but maybe this might make the next child who has the potential to do this, not and seek answers elsewhere. (as cho thought this was his answer) ....

    (sorry for the length and repeat what others have said earlier - i must have missed an entire page of reading before i posted until afterwards)
    "I hate to advocate weird chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone …
    but they've always worked for me,"

    Hunter S.Thompson

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