American torture of Iraqi prisoners

[enkydu]

Just remember: the prisoners who were being humiliated were in prison because they were attempting to KILL people. Furthermore, they jeopardized Iraqi civilian lives by hiding in homes and moques and wearing civilian clothing.

This does not justify what the Americans did; the Americans who did this should get court marshalled...but remember these prisoners were there for a reason. Don't think of these "poor guys" as civilians. They're cold-blooded killers that are more of a danger to the average Iraqi on the street than an American soldier is.

[Terraner]

Just remember: the prisoners who were being humiliated were in prison because they were attempting to KILL people. Furthermore, they jeopardized Iraqi civilian lives by hiding in homes and moques and wearing civilian clothing.

This does not justify what the Americans did; the Americans who did this should get court marshalled...but remember these prisoners were there for a reason. Don't think of these "poor guys" as civilians. They're cold-blooded killers that are more of a danger to the average Iraqi on the street than an American soldier is.

Just one little argument against your statement. What about "innocent until proven guilty"?
Oh, o.k. If you believe everything mass media servs us, then yes, they are. I supose at least part of them are truely guilty. But then there is much propaganda. On both sides!
In the end: There is everything allowed in love and war. And in this case it's WAR. There are no innocent bystanders in it. Not even us!

[enkydu]

What about "innocent until proven guilty"?

I agree whole-heartedly, and honestly thought about that while I was typing my post...but then I realized that I was writing in a forum where the American soliders have already been condemned without a trial.

And in fairness, I did pointedly say that I was not justifying what the Americans did and I did advocate court marshalling all those involved. I was merely trying to put things in perspective. Even though most of the people being held in American prisons in Iraq are killers (or at best, would-be killers) they should obviously be treated humanely.

[JustRising]

I agree whole-heartedly, and honestly thought about that while I was typing my post...but then I realized that I was writing in a forum where the American soliders have already been condemned without a trial.

And in fairness, I did pointedly say that I was not justifying what the Americans did and I did advocate court marshalling all those involved. I was merely trying to put things in perspective. Even though most of the people being held in American prisons in Iraq are killers (or at best, would-be killers) they should obviously be treated humanely.

I think american soldiers already proven their guilt. did anybody accuse them before about mis treating the prisoners before the pictures started appearing every where? That's not enough evidence?

[bebbaboo]

I think american soldiers already proven their guilt. did anybody accuse them before about mis treating the prisoners before the pictures started appearing every where? That's not enough evidence?

I agree. They are guilty ... Guilty of dishonoring America. Guilty of being stupid and arrogant. Guilty of undermining the little respect that the world community still has for us. They need to have jail time. To show others that we, as Americans, do NOT condone such behaviour. Just once, I'd like to hear that one of them had apologized. All we are hearing is whining that no one trained them, or that that was what they were told to do. Not one has stood up and said .. that was wrong and I am ashamed and sorry.

Sure these priosoners are not the kid next door. They may indeed be murderers and terrorists. But they just as well might be that kid from a country that sees invaders coming in and who has fought the battle he thinks is right. I'm not sure how I would react if I saw tanks and armed soldiers from another country roaming my streets. No matter how bad it had been before.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we went over there, and I'm glad we're still there. I think it needed to be done. I'm sorry that the Iraqi people are not able to accept that we are trying to rebuild (or build) their infastructure so that they can have a stable existence after we leave. One of the big complaints by the Afghans before the last war was that we left too quickly without helping them rebuild. Now we are being killed for doing just that. We can't win.

BUT, that doesn't mean we are allowed to lower our level of decency. Okay .. I could rant for hours. I'd better get back to work.

Thanks for listening.

[enkydu]

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we went over there, and I'm glad we're still there. I think it needed to be done. I'm sorry that the Iraqi people are not able to accept that we are trying to rebuild (or build) their infastructure so that they can have a stable existence after we leave. One of the big complaints by the Afghans before the last war was that we left too quickly without helping them rebuild. Now we are being killed for doing just that. We can't win.

BUT, that doesn't mean we are allowed to lower our level of decency.

I agree...great post.

[JustRising]

I agree. They are guilty ... Guilty of dishonoring America. Guilty of being stupid and arrogant. Guilty of undermining the little respect that the world community still has for us. They need to have jail time. To show others that we, as Americans, do NOT condone such behaviour. Just once, I'd like to hear that one of them had apologized. All we are hearing is whining that no one trained them, or that that was what they were told to do. Not one has stood up and said .. that was wrong and I am ashamed and sorry.

Sure these priosoners are not the kid next door. They may indeed be murderers and terrorists. But they just as well might be that kid from a country that sees invaders coming in and who has fought the battle he thinks is right. I'm not sure how I would react if I saw tanks and armed soldiers from another country roaming my streets. No matter how bad it had been before.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we went over there, and I'm glad we're still there. I think it needed to be done. I'm sorry that the Iraqi people are not able to accept that we are trying to rebuild (or build) their infastructure so that they can have a stable existence after we leave. One of the big complaints by the Afghans before the last war was that we left too quickly without helping them rebuild. Now we are being killed for doing just that. We can't win.

BUT, that doesn't mean we are allowed to lower our level of decency. Okay .. I could rant for hours. I'd better get back to work.

Thanks for listening.

You said it all...