man's empathy towards animals ???

[redbear]

I have an interesting question for everyone . i know this is a movie forum, and this is way off topic. but there is a very eclectic group of people who from all walks of life (not to mention all over the globe)... and i am interested in the answers i might get with this question i have.

i was reading in the headlines the other day of a company getting the 8-ball from PETA because of their treatment of cows for koshering. (my own views are that the act of "koshering" animals should be outlawed. also, i am going to assume that everyone knows what it means to have kosher food, especially cattle, so i am not going to explain).

secondary tangent : i am well aware of the tactics used by PETA in achieving their goals. i do not condone their actions but i will say that they have made me think about certain products i was buying . (ie : IAMS)

back to original tangent: so, in my infinite wisdom, i decided to see this "secret" video shot within the slaughter house. not something i would recommend to anyone on a full stomache. then to make matters worse, later in the evening, i came across a Pitbull rescue site.( my wife and i decided to start fostering Pitbulls again and i wanted to see what resources were in the Pensacola area. we currently have one now who is an absolute dream companion. my son and "Diamond' are becoming very good friends.) and on this particular site are (of course) the results of the various unethical practices used by many a small-minded persons in the care of these animals.

so, after viewing more real life gore than i think any one person should view in his life, this question came to my mind. and in trying to understand it for myself, i am passing it on to see what other people think...

when did man lose his ability to have empathy towards his brother animal ? or when did you think he chose to ignore the lives of those very animals he had used to keep his family safe and fed ?? now i am talking about the average man. not necessarily those of us who relate to totem animals and have furry children running thru our house 24/7.

i have been discussing this with my wife and we both think that it has to do with technology. not your I-pod technology, i am referring to when man realized that he could replace his companions with machines to do the work without the complications of using a living creature. it disgusts me what man is capable of doing to his brother in the name of religion so it doesn't shock me that he could do this to his brother animal. but i guess another question i would have is why ?? why do this? why treat animals like they do not matter ?? different thoughts of the instant gratification
generation and throw away everything (relationships, cleaning products, whatever) come to mind but i am curious as to what other people think.

please comment as i am very interested in what other people think.


What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man.
All things are connected.

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish tribe)

[trailergod]

well, heres my only problem...... they treat animals as if they are more important than humans.... !!!!!!

i don't care what PETA thinks about animals. I think more of the poor people in SOUTH ASIA who needs more attention and help than how my dinner gets killed...

[Fed7haS]

well, heres my only problem...... they treat animals as if they are more important than humans.... !!!!!!

i don't care what PETA thinks about animals. I think more of the poor people in SOUTH ASIA who needs more attention and help than how my dinner gets killed...

Well the ppl in south asia died cos of an natural desaster... not killed for food so you cant realy compaire the 2... but yet you can... i will bet you anything that 95% of the ppl that did die.. died faster and more painless then animals that are "kosher Butchered" and on that note...

I dont give a damn about religion... but i do give a damn about how we kill the animals that feed us... in my country we have a realy good Eco-Farming system.. and 80% of oure meet comes from free running, healthy and above all animals that have had a good live... and when they get butcherd they are shot point blank in the brain with a special 50cal gun... death is instent and painless...

I think its funny that lack of inteligence in animals makes them less worthy to a good life... i have a idear.. lets take all the Retards, Autists, mongols and other Brain handicabt ppl and let em live in small boxes for the rest of there lives... lets let them walk around in there own **** for weeks... lets kill them in a manor that takes hours and lets then later say that we worry more about the ppl in asia... omg

Fed7haS

PS : my english sucks hehe so if you read this far.. I LOVE YOU !!! hehe..

[redbear]

well, heres my only problem...... they treat animals as if they are more important than humans.... !!!!!!

i don't care what PETA thinks about animals. I think more of the poor people in SOUTH ASIA who needs more attention and help than how my dinner gets killed...

ok...this is not about PETA, nor religion, nor the natutral disaster that took place in another part of the world. if you think so, then you might need to reread my post.

my question deals with man's lack of empathy towards animals. not necessarily those that we use for food, but animals in general. dogs, cats, zoo animals,whales in the sea...animals in general. i came about my question because i watched a video pertaining to the slaughter of cattle and then floowed it up with a website that shows the mistreatment of fighting dogs.

there had to be a reason why man just disregards the lives of the animals that occupy the earth with us.

to Fed7haS : what country to you live in ..??

[Fed7haS]

I live in denmark..... a small country that lies next to sweden and has a population of 5.000.000...

One of the reasons i think that animals that are used for food do so well in oure country is cos we have almost no religion.... and we have a fairly good econemy and danish ppl dont mind paying 20% more for meat that comes from the Eco-Farmers.... we are a food loving country and take pride in what we eat

Fed7haS

[EDIT] On a side not regarding the ppl in south asia... the Danish Goverment have donated 76.279.035 USD to help the survivers... and the RED CROSS colected 13.439.639 USD over the last 3 days from the danish ppl.... that makes us the largest donaters if you factor in the population of only 5.000.000 ppl

[enkydu]

I think this has little to do with religion and has more to do with human nature and the economy. As Fed7haS stated, in Denmark, they're willing to pay 20% more for humanely killed meat (I love the way people complain about animals not being treated "humanely"...they're not humans so they shouldn't be treated "humanely").

Anyway, Americans seem more concerned about price. We want to ensure that our money goes as far as it can. I have a hard time seeing this as a bad virtue since it has lead to insanely competitive pricing. Because of this there are very few, if any, Americans who have not gone to McDonald's at least once in their life, paid about $3 USD, and had someone else prepare a meal for them. That's amazing when you think about it...when else in human history have the poorest members of a society been able to have someone else make a meal for them? (I understand that there is still a long way to go in wiping out poverty, especially world-wide...I simply wanted to detail one upside to the cost-effective methods of slaughtering animals. I also understand that competition has its problems too, but let's keep this thread on topic.)

Anyway, I think, red bear, you would be mistaken to believe that the mistreating of animals is a modern problem. A couple years ago I read the Lewis and Clark journals and was amazed at their reports about the native Americans they encountered. Lewis and Clark said they were amazed at how cruel the natives of the Bitterroot Mts were to their horses. What puzzled them even more was that even though this community was brutal to their horses when they were alive, (apparently they beat them mercilessly and gave them little food) they criticized the white men for eating a horse when the expedition was trapped in a snow storm and needed something to eat in order to survive. So there was some respect that the natives had towards these animals..they didn't want them killed...but they didn't treat them well at all. I only bring this up to show that even in a community with no modern technology, there seems to be a problem with treating animals with dignity.

My guess is that like all bad things that people do, the thoughtlessness many people tend to demonstrate towards animals is mostly rooted in human nature. Sure people do nice things once and a while (the $2 billion pledged to SE Asia ia a good example) people seem to be pre-disposed to naturally do thoughtless things that harm others.

[trailergod]

still, my problem is.......

PETA is overated and over the top in terms of its methods about dealing with animal cruelty.

I have nothing against animals, may it be dogs, horses , pigs or chicken. I am certainly for good treatment towards domesticated animals. What I don't understand is why there is so much clamor about the ways animals are to be treated when killed for food.

How should pigs or cows be killed or treated before they are cut into pieces and deep frozen ? I mean these are animals who have their main function as food.

I hear all this clamor about Ethical treatment of animals, or that they should be treated humanely.... WTF does that mean ? That pigs, chicken and lamb are of the same level as humans?

How about the death penalty, abortion, and world polution. Lets deal with those things before we clamor about how we should treat our roast beef or chili wings.

Maybe some of you have not read it, but I posted here several times that I lived for several years in Asia. That would be in Thailand and in the Philippines. This again bring us back to "culture". I think most developed countries have gotten used to seeing their food as being "prepared" and frozen to the point you dont see anymore what kind of animal you are actually eating. While living in the Philippines, I was able to eat dog meat, snake, and more interesting other kinds of crawling creatures... :-)
I have even personally seen how to properly butcher a cow or a pig, that would be to cut open its neck and let it bleed, in that way the blood gets out for a better meat. I have nothing against that method of killing animals for food.

[enkydu]

I agree completely with trailergod here.

Although I don't see any point at going out of my way to be cruel to animals...they are animals and not people. The distinction between the two should be maintained.

[Fed7haS]

they are animals and not people. The distinction between the two should be maintained.

? are we homosapians not animals? Realy inteligent ones but still only animals... just cos cows are on a difrent IQ level then we are dosent mean it dosent feal, hurt, is happy and sad... it dosent mean its just food period... in fact Humans are not ment to eat meat... scentists have stated that for over 50 years... oure teath and stumak system is made for plants and stuff like that... but some where in the wave of evolution we got smart... and started eating animals... this is actualy one of the reasons oure system has sutch a hard time with meat and why its not helthy...

Fed7haS

PS : omg i hope you can read it :S

[redbear]

well...first off, human are omnivores. which means we eat both plants and animals. it has always been that way since we were monkees. why do you think we have canine teeth ?? i think maybe you might have misread the article.

i have seen the proper way of slaughtering livestock and it is quick and painless, i can understand the desire to do that. but when it is not done properly, the cow is not dead in 2 seconds and suffers greatly. does it matter that they are not humans ??

this is what i am asking...why is it ok to see this animal suffer ? but even i am getting to focused on this one idea....i am not refering to just the cattle, but about all animals. the dogs in dog fights, the wolf that gets shot by hunters for fun, the person who feels it is ok to breed their cats (so that their kis can watch) but fails to recognize that 60% of cats and dogs born today will end up in the shelter euthanized.

it is not that i don't have any feelings towards the se asians. i completely feel for them. i went thru hurricane ivan (i live in pensacola) and i lost my home, and lived without water and power for 5 weeks (not fun). so i know what they are going thru. i was lucky to have good friends who helped me and my family while my life came back to normal. (somewhat)...

[bebbaboo]

I understand your question red bear. First off, let me say that I'm sorry that you were hit by the hurricanes this year. Although we here in the US are much better prepared for such disasters, when it hits you, it is still a disaster. I'm glad you have been able to recover. I know everyone hasn't.

As for the Asian crisis. We all feel deeply for those poor souls. I have donated $200, dispersed to several groups that are trying to help. I hope my pittance will make a small difference to someone.

But back to topic. The human being often disgusts me. From cruelty to animals to cruelty to our fellow man, the history of the human race is nothing to be proud of. I think if everyone had to actually see what is done to animals, however, there might be an outcry. However, as trailergod mentioned, I think we never think about the animals that we are eating. We go to the store and see the nicely packaged meat, or buy boxed frozen food and come home and cook it ... never once thinking that it is an animal we are consuming.... one that suffered and died so that we could enjoy a steak or a hot dog.

Do the jewish people that are required to eat koser ever think about the cruelties that have gone into creating this religious requirement. I doubt it ... they just know that their rabbai told them that they should eat kosher. Without groups like PETA, no one would ever know what is going on behind closed doors.

But it is deeper than that, as you have surmised. It is a deep flaw within the human consiousness ... that we allow, or even in some cases, enjoy such cruelty. Hence dog fights, cock fights, greyhound races ... any number of sports that maul and kill. For that matter, look at football. Or race car driving. The excitement is in the hits .. the crashes ... the violence. We are a violent race of beings ... and we always have been. Remember the gladiators?