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  1. #1
    j7wild Guest

    Angry The United States Sucks !!

    The United States Sucks when it comes to Health Care!!

    I am watching Michael Moore's Sicko and American Insurance Companies only care about profit.

    They deny payment for life saving operations by looking for any technical reason or preexisting condition or in 2 separate women's cases; one was denied because she once had a yeast infection so that's a preexisting condition and the other was denied cancer treatment because they say she is only 22 and 22 years old is too young to get cancer.

    So if you have health insurance and you've been paying years after years on time and you need it one day; it may be useless!!

    You will be no different than someone who has no health insurance!!

    They are people at Health Insurance companies called Medical Directors; their only job is to deny health care payment to people who have insurance with those companies (Blue Cross, Human, etc).

    The more they deny, the bigger the bonus they receive.

    Furthermore, Health Insurance Companies have 4 times the Congressional Lobbyists who pay Congressmen 100 and 100 of thousand of dollars to vote against Health Care Reform Bills and National Health Care Proposal.

    President George W. Bush received $960,000 so he can sign a Prescription Drug Bill for Senior Citizens into law which is supposed to lower the cost of prescription drugs for our Elderly but in reality, it does nothing!!

    A man in the U.S. cut off two of his fingers while sawing and when he went to the hospital to get help, he was told because of his insurance policy, he had to choose which fingers to reattach; one would cost him $12,000 and the other would cost his $60,000. Pick One!!

    The same thing happened to a man in Canada and in his case, it was 5 fingers and when he went to the Hospital to get help; they performed surgery for 24 hours by 4 different Surgeons and reattached all his fingers for FREE.

    In England, everyone who is working and under 60 years old pays only 6.65 British Pound for Prescription Drugs;

    it doesn't matter whether the prescription is for 20 pills or 200 pills or whether it's for a common cold or for HIV or Cancer Treatment.

    6.65 British Pounds is all you pay (that's about $10 U.S. Dollars) and if you over 60 years old, the drugs are free.

    The average wait in a U.S. Hospital for care if you have no insurance is 8 hours;

    in Canada, you are seen within 20 min or less and they don't ask you if you have Insurance.

    Same thing in Great Britain and an expecting Mother gets 6 months of paid leave; in the U.S., she would get nothing!!

    The United States Health Care system needs to be fixed:

    we need to first have a National Tax (like they have in Italy, regardless of what you buy, there is a 20% to 29% Iva Tax on everything) and get rid of the Income Tax and that criminal Entity of the Government named the I.R.S.

    we need to take the Political Power away from Health Insurance and the American Medical Association whose only interest is to make money;

    their creed of taking care of the poor and the sick and leave no one behind is total B.S.

    Politicians shouldn't be allowed to take money from Lobbyists to sway their votes; that should be treated criminally the same as taking a Bribe and that should apply to the President of the United States because the President and the Presidency is NOT above the Law!!

    The United States is now ranked #37 in health care just ahead of Slovenia; France and Italy are #1 and #2 in National Health Care.

    The World's Wealthiest Country is also the Worst Health Care Provider;

    it's a bloody shame!!

    I should move to Canada, the U.K. or back to Italy!!


  2. #2
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    I also saw the movie and agree with many of the points...

    But living in Canada, I laughed when he interviewed those 2 people who said they never wait more than 20-30 minutes.

    The average wait time is around 4-6 hours for an Emergency Room visit.

    Not that I mind that since (the majority of) our health care is free (through taxes). But just a point that I questioned / disagreed with in the film.

  3. #3
    j7wild Guest
    Heck, even Cuba has better Health Care than the U.S.!!

    And the part about France, it's incredible how the U.S. is always making fun of the French yet their social care system is so much better than the U.S.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Pierre Bazinet View Post
    But living in Canada, I laughed when he interviewed those 2 people who said they never wait more than 20-30 minutes.

    The average wait time is around 4-6 hours for an Emergency Room visit.
    Well, that's still better than here in the states. I've had to sit in emergency rooms for about 10 to 13 hours on more than one occassion with friends and/or family... waiting.

    Also in America people have died while waiting to see a doctor in the emergency room. The most recent case that pissed some people off...

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

    She was vomitting blood right on the floor of the waiting room. A janitor came by and mopped up her blood puke at least 3 times, but I guess it still wasn't serious enough for her to get to the front of the line.
    Other people (strangers) waiting in the emergency room who saw this woman vomitting were calling 911 From the waiting room trying to get her in.

    Also the emergency rooms in hospitals do not communicate with each other. In other words one emergency room could be packed full with a 12 hour wait while another emergency room 4 to 5 miles away is almost totally empty. Is there a problem with the American system?

    Also my ex-girlfriend's mom died just a few days ago from a hospital screw up. She was sick and admitted right after July 4th... she was on her way to feeling better... however... she was allergic to morphine... the hospital gave it to her anyways... she swelled up, both kidneys failed, got a rash on her body, and a blood infection... then Blue Cross showed up and said that they weren't going to cover her mom anymore... then the hospital said that it was time for her to go home.
    Is there a problem with the American System?

    Also my father used to work for Blue Cross and Blue Shield. He worked for them for 14 years. He was less than 2 years away from free medical for life (a benefit they had for their employees). One of his co-workers was about 13 months from free medical. Blue Cross went non-union and layed off the union workers. Less than a year after his lay off my dad was diagnosed with large cell lymphoma. He's had to pay his own way with some help from Health Insurance through 4 cancer battles and conjestive heart failure, however his premium monthly payment now is about $1000. Multiply that times 12 and you've got $12000 a year.

    How much do Canadians pay per month for their medical tax stuff? I'm curious.

    I'll take the wait in Canada, Europe, and Cuba anyday. And some say that socialized medicine is unpatriotic and unamerican... well, then to me, that says that corporate greed is what is considered patriotic and the american way, then count my *** out.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloss View Post
    How much do Canadians pay per month for their medical tax stuff? I'm curious.

    I'll take the wait in Canada, Europe, and Cuba anyday. And some say that socialized medicine is unpatriotic and unamerican... well, then to me, that says that corporate greed is what is considered patriotic and the american way, then count my *** out.

    We don't have a "medical" tax per say. We do pay a lot of taxes however. Depending on how much you make there's a percentage that's taken off of each paycheque plus deductions for unemployment and Canadian Pension Plan. Not sure if you guys have something similar in the US or not. About 30% of my pay goes to the government. Then we pay two sales tax on almost every good or service. There's a PST which is a provincial tax and goes to the provincial government and varies from province to province. Here in Ontario it's 8%. Then there's a federal tax called GST (Goods and Services Tax) which is 6%. That money goes to the federal government. GST is charged on everything, including things that don't have PST on them (books).

    Each province is responseable for it's own health care system. We have OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan). It's paid for by the province through tax money and money the province is given by the federal government through transfer payments. We all get a photo health card that we show every time we go to a doctor or a hospital and they swipe in the computer and then you wait. That's it. There might be the odd form you need to fill out.

    I too chuckled at the wait times those folks in London, ON told him in the film. Depending on what hospital, time of day, and you condition your wait time varies. Anytime I've gone to the hospital is usually an hour or two. It never bothers me because I know it could be a lot worse and it could cost me a hell of a lot of money.
    You're waiting for a train, a train that will take you far away. You know where you hope this train will take you, but you can't be sure. But it doesn't matter - because we'll be together.

  6. #6
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    uhm... how long have you lived here ?? you should know by now that everything in america is 'for profit only' ... do you really think anyone would do anything for anyone else if they were not going to make money from it ? every insurance company, be it health, car, life, whatever ... is in the business to make money. period.

    dude, you should know this.

    granted i haven't seen it, nor do i plan on it... but i thought that this movie has already been 'nuked' .. ? meaning that most of the facts are wrong but it does bring to light that there is something wrong with the system. which i guess is the point of the movie ....

    personally, i don't have a problem with the system.
    "I hate to advocate weird chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone …
    but they've always worked for me,"

    Hunter S.Thompson

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by red bear View Post
    personally, i don't have a problem with the system.
    not sure if i'm interpretting what you say correctly, but sounds like you agree with the system? or are you apathetic towards it?

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    I work for an insurance company and they are going to start surcharging our health care if we smoke, are overweight, etc. Please tell me how thats not discrimination.... So now I have to live a certain or get charged out the *** for it?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmaolmao View Post
    not sure if i'm interpretting what you say correctly, but sounds like you agree with the system? or are you apathetic towards it?
    meaning that with what i've had to deal with, they more than met my needs. i had knee surgery twice in the last 5 years. total hospital bill was well over $25k. out of pocket expense was nill. i didn't have to pay my phone bill when i left after a day. the $32/week taken out of my check only comes to $1600 a year, which is less than a tenth of the hospital stay. how can i complain about that ?? yeah, if i keep the same policy for the next 20 years, i might put more money into it than what they have paid out. but it sure as hell is a lot better than having to pay the hospital $25k over the course of a few months ...

  10. #10
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    Uh oh, turn off the stove, Vic Mackey is mad.

    Canadian wait times are pretty bad. I haven't seen Sicko but for some reason I don't trust Michael Moore, even if he has entertaining movies.
    Sgt. Johnny Beaufort: He says, "The Apaches are a great race," sir. "They've never been conquered. But it is not well for a nation to be always at war. The young men die... the women sing sad songs... and the old ones are hungry in the winter."
    Fort Apache

  11. #11
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    It's nice to wish for universal health care but if it ever becomes reality it will be repealed within months.

    Why? Because to provide healthcare for over 300 million people you're going to have to tax the hell out of people. You have no idea how expensive these systems are, they make the Iraq war look like a cup of coffee.

    The main problem with Americans (and also the reason why health care is expensive) is that people abuse the system. They go to the doctor for every stupid little thing and always walk out with prescriptions for $2000 worth of drugs. We go to therapy for EVERYTHING and charge these useless visits to our insurance companies. Most people find it easier to get anti depression meds that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of their lives, rather than fix their situation.

    My mother had to have a biopsy to check for breast cancer (everything turned out to be fine, thank god) and this woman on the phone was asking her where should they send the bus to pick her up? We have a car, my mother was not sick or disabled. She said "don't worry, insurance will pay for it". My mom drove there herself yet how many people did take the bus even though they didn't need it? How many people get coverage for Viagra? How many people get free drugs for STDs that they were too stupid to protect themselves from? How many people resell their own pills? How many people get sicker because they're already on five meds that they don't need?

    If those people didn't exist then health care costs would've been cheap, but they aren't and they never will be.

    The current insurance scheme is highly faulty but I don't think universal health care would solve anything.

    Drug addicts get full coverage yet (even though I had insurance) I had to pay for everything from X-rays to ice when I had a shard of wood sticking out of my knee. That's because it was "my choice to engage in a risky activity like ice hockey" but the damn junkies had no other choice. Fix that logic and THEN we can talk about universal health care.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    .....
    i couldn't agree with you more. there are always the people that look for the easier way out and to take advantage of anything they can... the people that ruin it for everyone else. they need to have a 'good conduct policy' similar to the NFL. you screw up, you don't get a chance to have any benefits... it would never happen, but it is nice to think about .....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSNBC.com
    Another reason for the U.S. drop in the ranking is that the Census Bureau now tracks life expectancy for a lot more countries — 222 in 2004 — than it did in the 1980s. However, that does not explain why so many countries entered the rankings with longer life expectancies than the United States.

    Murray, from the University of Washington, said improved access to health insurance could increase life expectancy. But, he predicted, the U.S. won’t move up in the world rankings as long as the health care debate is limited to insurance.

    Policymakers also should focus on ways to reduce cancer, heart disease and lung disease, said Murray. He advocates stepped-up efforts to reduce tobacco use, control blood pressure, reduce cholesterol and regulate blood sugar.

    “Even if we focused only on those four things, we would go along way toward improving health care in the United States,” Murray said. “The starting point is the recognition that the U.S. does not have the best health care system. There are still an awful lot of people who think it does.”

    L I N K

    just adding text to get past the count filter....

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