The War Has Begun!

[guevara]

I'm alittle worried about this, i guess today the last day of peace...

LAJES, the Azores (CNN) -- President Bush said Sunday the opportunity for a diplomatic solution to the confrontation with Iraq would end Monday, calling it "a moment of truth for the world."

Bush said he hopes the United Nations "will do its job," but warned that France's threatened veto of any U.N. resolution to authorize force means that "cards have been played."

Bush made his comments after a brief summit in the Azores with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. A British official had described the meeting as the "last chance for diplomacy."

"No one is pretending things are other than difficult," the British official said.

Frustrated by opposition to their hard-line stance on Iraqi disarmament, the architects of the "coalition of the willing" converged on Terceira, an island of the Portuguese Azores in the Atlantic Ocean, to decide what to do next.

The three countries are co-sponsors of a new U.N. resolution that would set out disarmament tests for Iraq with a do-it-or-else deadline -- a resolution that even sponsors concede has failed to garner the support it needs to pass through the U.N. Security Council.

Vice President Dick Cheney Sunday hinted Sunday at how near a Bush decision might be on whether to launch a war against Iraq.

"Given where we are, both diplomatically as well as in the region, we're getting close to the point where the president is going to have to make an important decision," Cheney told CBS's "Face the Nation."

[trailergod]

and it wont be an easy WAR.... no war is easy anyway, lives will always be lost...

anyway what i fear most about this Gulf War is that it will end up into a WORLD WAR.

How come non of you are worried about this? A world war with countries like India and Pakistan with in the region having nuclear weapons is not a good idea..
right?

Is there a guarantee from Bush that this CLEAN up operation wont end up into a FULL scale war involving other or more nations ?

http://www.yahoo.com/s/67622

BAGHDAD, Iraq - President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) warned Sunday that if Iraq (news - web sites) is attacked, it will take the war anywhere in the world "wherever there is sky, land or water."


Saddam's threat was made during a meeting with military commanders and his remarks were carried by the official Iraqi News Agency. It came as President Bush (news - web sites) said Monday was the "moment of truth" for the United Nations (news - web sites) to demand Baghdad's "immediate and unconditional disarmament."


Saddam told his commanders: "When the enemy starts a large-scale battle, he must realize that the battle between us will be open wherever there is sky, land and water in the entire world."


Saddam also denied Iraq has any weapons of mass destruction, as the United States and Britain claim.


"Are weapons of mass destruction a needle that you can conceal in a head cover or in the scarf of an old woman that (U.N. weapons) inspectors cannot find?" Saddam asked.


"There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq," he added, joking: "Well, give us time and the necessary means and we will produce any weapon they want and then we will invite them to come and destroy them."

[Marcus]

he added, joking: "Well, give us time and the necessary means and we will produce any weapon they want and then we will invite them to come and destroy them."

Saddam has a sense of humour? I never knew...

Monday...we'll see.

[Kn'thrak]

It will be a damn quick war tho. Iraq is going to be turned into glass!

[Gaumont]

Originally posted by tisoy
anyway what i fear most about this Gulf War is that it will end up into a WORLD WAR.

How come non of you are worried about this? A world war with countries like India and Pakistan with in the region having nuclear weapons is not a good idea..
right?

I cant speak for others but Im not worried about that. Not the least. I can see no reason why this would escelate to a world war.

First, who would stand behind Irac and attack UK and/or US? (and remember that such an attack would be an attack on all the NATO countries.)

Second, what country have the military ability to try an attack on NATO (or UK & US alone for that matter), except countries with nuclear capabilities (which would have to use those to get anywhere in a war against NATO)? Not counting China and Russia, but those wont get into a war with NATO.
We are not talking about WW1 or WW2 situation here. Geography speaks against world war. In WW1 and WW2 we had all the initiating countrys located close-by and no weapons of mass destruction. Italy, Russia and Japan joined Germany cuz they thought they had a chance to win and dominate this part of the world (well Japan their part) not cuz they wanted to make a statment against US (or whoever).

Look at it realistically, there is just a WAY too big diff in military capability today for a world war invloving NATO on one side. Look at gulf war. It was a fast crushing of Iracs army. Reason: the weapons werent evenly matched. The Allies just ran over Iracs outdated weapons. The gap has only grown since then not become smaller.
So only thing left is ABC weapons, and the ods on anyone outside Irac would engage in warfare using ABC agains UK & US is proberbly nonexsisting. Reason: retaliation would be far greater than what they can inflict.

Perhaps an attack on Irac would trigger more terrorist attacks on UK & US (although I think its unlikely after US leveling of Afganistan) but no way will it become a WW3.


Remember, Irac (is now) nowhere near as strong as Germany (military speaking) was when WW2 started (compared to the contemporary opponents).

[Marcus]

2 more hours till monday over here....

[blugh]

This isn't going to turn into a world war, I don't think. But, it will alter the world so that, in programming terms...

if country.supportforwar=true then
country.levelofterroristattacks:=country.levelofterroristattacks[Israel];

In other words, any country that backs this war with have to deal with continued horrible attacks from Muslim extremists, just as Israel does now due to their oppression of Palestine. I'm not saying it's good, or bad, just saying that it will be.The solution to terrorism is not to make them more angry by destroying their friends and families in a war. It's kinda funny how much a Star Wars quote suits all this:

"The harder you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers."

And if more people are slipping through, they'll be really pissed off. And does America want that? Saddam is contained, he is no threat to anyone, and the current situation will keep things that way. Why aggravate things by going to war?

[ZUBi]

Originally posted by Kn'thrak
It will be a damn quick war tho. Iraq is going to be turned into glass!

sorry to say my co-mate MOD, but YOU THINK (VERY) WRONG

[carl]

Originally posted by Kn'thrak
It will be a damn quick war tho. Iraq is going to be turned into glass!

Well it would look that way except that's what they said about Vietnam. Russia also said the same thing about Afghanistan when they were at the hight of their power. History has proven that a small nation that is determined enough can be victorious over even the most powerfull nations.

Remember that most of the terrorists don't care if they live or die because they are fighting for religious beliefs. Those beliefs are very wrong to their own holy book but they are still strongly held beliefs that they will be rewarded for death. In comparrison a lot of the soldiers in England and America will be terrified of Death. They'll probably enter any battles thinking about their families and that in itself will give the terrorists a chance. A scary fact, but a fact nonetheless.

[Gaumont]

Originally posted by moviebuff
Well it would look that way except that's what they said about Vietnam. Russia also said the same thing about Afghanistan when they were at the hight of their power. History has proven that a small nation that is determined enough can be victorious over even the most powerfull nations.

Remember that most of the terrorists don't care if they live or die because they are fighting for religious beliefs. Those beliefs are very wrong to their own holy book but they are still strongly held beliefs that they will be rewarded for death. In comparrison a lot of the soldiers in England and America will be terrified of Death. They'll probably enter any battles thinking about their families and that in itself will give the terrorists a chance. A scary fact, but a fact nonetheless.

1: Vietnam & Afghanistan both provided terrain-difficulties that does not exist in Iraq. In Vietnam it was the jungle and in Afghanistan it was the mountains.

2: During the Vietnam war, North Vietnam was backed by the communists, becuse they didn't want US to overthrow a comunist country. In Afghanistan the opposition was backed by US, who diden't want Russia to win. Iraq is not backed by anyone (that I know of atleast).

3: In both above mentiond cases the opposition was by ppl wanting to defend their country and leaders. In Iraq such loyalties does not exist among the general puplic and regular army to the same extent. Don't forget how the Iraq soldiers surrendered in masses during the Gulf War, in many cases the allied forces didn't even have to fire a shot, the Iraqe surendered right away. Sadamns Royal Guard (or whatever his private army is called) will properbly fight to the end, but don't think that he got undying loyalty among the ppl, if he had, Iraqe ppl wouldn't flee the counrty like they do (any no, not only now that US threaten to invade, Iraqe ppl have fleed for many years. They are for example the largest imigrant group in sweden now).

4: it is not terrorist that make up the bulk of the Iraqe army, they are usuall ppl just like me or Tisoy who both chose chosen to serve our contries in the army. And Im sure they dont wanna die any more than I do.




:angel"


by the way, i agree with France, the weapon inspectors should get the time to do their job.

but if it goes to war, i do believe that Kn'thrak is right, I think its gonna be a short war.

[guevara]

Originally posted by Gaumont
but if it goes to war, i do believe that Kn'thrak is right, I think its gonna be a short war.

Another Hiroshima ?!?

[wirm]

Originally posted by guevara
Another Hiroshima ?!?

That's pretty unlikely.

Personally, I think that the ousting of Hussein will take a little while. He probably has human shields all over the place.

[Apocalyptica]

George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC


Dear Governor Bush:

So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:

1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works!

2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.

3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.

4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.

5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either!

6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of.

Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it 's some third world ass!). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet!

But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!!

Yours,

Michael Moore

[trailergod]

the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you!

LOL-----:big grin:

[Marcus]

Funny guy. He's very good at making a serious point with humour.