17 films fight for Feature Animation Oscar

[Marcus]

Originally posted by Uri
With that in mind, compare Star Wars movie length and SL2 length and then compare the percentage of animation or screening time of particular animated character and importance of it to the overall movie.

Well I'm just thinking the final battle scenes are CGI. Yoda, Dexter (the guy at the resturant) most of the chase scene. The entire planet where the clones are being made + those characters...and I probably missed a bunch of stuff.
Oh! Plus basicly every time you look out a window

All this talk of Anime makes me feel very cut off. I really need to see some more. (Though I think I might stay away from the crazy tenticle stuff Uri is talking about ) Censorship is weird. Always...

[Equinox]

Japanese animes must not be nominated for american awards, it's completely different style and culture (in subject and visual style of cartoons). I am not anime fan, but just for interest I saw Metropolis last weekend in theater. I have feeling like I'm watched another stupid Pokemon episode. This style is too lame for me. May be because I grown up on "Duck Tales" or "Chip'n'Dale"... So... Am am still "traditional" Disney-like animation fan. "Ice Age" will win. You say that it's not deserve Oscar, but who in Academy cares? A Beautiful Mind don't deserve Oscar either.

[Granite]

For those unfamiliar with Anime, try watching Akira. Its got an interesting plot but the animation supasses that of Spirited Away and Metropolis. It gets a little weird in parts but stick to it a look closely for the undertones to the movies.

[editman]

Originally posted by Equinox
Japanese animes must not be nominated for american awards, it's completely different style and culture (in subject and visual style of cartoons).

So by that rationale films like "Life Is Beautiful" or "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" shouldn't even had been nominated (and won) major awards like Best Actor or Best Cinematography etc, simply because they're not American films.

That's as fascist as a close-minded statement can be.

[Equinox]

We are talking here about anime, not about Life Is Beautiful, which is very traditional film and american audiences love it. Crouching Tiger is box office hit too. But anime in generally is not traditional genre for Americans. Anime can't pretend for Animation Oscar for the same reason why films like Requiem for a Dream can't pretend for Best Picture nomination: they are not traditional for Americans. I don't see any fascism in my words and I appreciate all styles and genres of cinema. But American public and Academy is not.

[editman]

There are all different genres of Japanese anime. Spirited Away is different from Akira. Metropolis is different from something like Urotsukidoji. Branding "anime" as a single genre is like saying "Aliens", "Terminator' (sci-fi), "Robocop", "Batman", "Lethal Weapon", "Die Hard", "Speed" are all action movie.

Not all anime are action-oriented and full of violence, sex and weird stuff. I wonder if you've ever seen any of Miyasaki's films. He always has some sort of environmental messages behind all those fantastic animations.

So saying "anime must not be nominated for american awards" is like generalising: 1) the Oscars are for American films and American-funded films only 2) all Japanese animes have no artsitic merits 3) mainstream American audiences will never enjoy any Japanese anime. That's close-minded.

"Spirited Away" did not do well in the box office as "Crouching Tiger" did because Disney screwed up the promotional campaign for the film big time. Had it been shown on as many screens as "Crouching Tiger" did, with more people know about the film, it might do better than "Crouching Tiger" cos it has border appeal to a wider range of audiences. (Would you take your 5-year old kid to see "Crouching Tiger"? If you did, you need a babysitter.)

The Acamdey Awards should really be based on the artistic merits of the films, not whether they do well in the box office, not whether the film is "traditional" or not. (Life is Beautiful is "traditional" and Spirited Away is not!!? In what way? In which
"tradition"?)

"Spirited Away", by a looooong shot, deserves an award rather than "Ice Age" or "Lilo and Stitch" do.

Then again, the film wasn't made or released to get an award. It still deserves it.

We'll see how open-minded/close-minded the Academy will be when nominations come out.

[drunkenGuru]

Agreed with editman...

Let's remember it's meant to be an award for best film, not best HOLLYWOOD film...

Speaking of tradition, Australian films haven't been traditional... so should they be omitted?

Also, many US movies are now made in Australia... should they be omitted to? What you speak is ridicule...

As time goes on, with new styles and different approaches, "tradition" changes.

Even with Matrix, it was mostly done in Australia, with all of the action choreographed (sp?) by a Hong Kong action choreographer... should that be "banned" from the Academy Awards?
If not, where exactly do you draw the line?


Listen, Equinox, I'm not flaming you... I also believe the judges will be biased... but to say "animes must not be nominated for american awards" is very narrow-minded...

[Equinox]

Originally posted by editman

So saying "anime must not be nominated for american awards" is like generalising: 1) the Oscars are for American films and American-funded films only 2) all Japanese animes have no artsitic merits 3) mainstream American audiences will never enjoy any Japanese anime. That's close-minded.

You said that and that's really close-minded, I agree. But if you want my opinion on that matter, then: 1) the Oscars are for traditional movies in different languages, that's why there's special Best Foreign Picture Oscar. What I mean by "traditional" Oscar matherial? It's: a) High level of all movie's "components" b) Epic, more than 2 hours long c) Pathetic d) Conservative e) Simple story with not-controversial moral f) Politcorectness g) Heroism h) Main roles of suffering alcoholics, AIDS-dying gays, crazy madmen etc. i) movie take place in the past historic period j) wide popularity and decent box-office. 2) Japanese animes probably have some artistic merits (like American comic books), but that's not enough for Oscar and recognition of American audiences. And not only American. When I saw "Metropolis" there were only 3 men in theater except me for this movie. How can you talk about Oscar if nobody don't want to watch Japanese animes outside Japan? 3) I don't know about the future, but mainstream American audiences is not enjoying Japanese anime now. Spirited Away didn't get wide release because in limited release there weren't too many people on screenings, unlike Crouching Tiger.

[Equinox]

Originally posted by drunkenGuru
Listen, Equinox, I'm not flaming you... I also believe the judges will be biased... but to say "animes must not be nominated for american awards" is very narrow-minded...

Once again, I didn't said something that you are mentioned in your post. But you can't agree that Best Picture is for english-language film, no matter if it's from Australia or England. For 75 years of Oscar History can you tell me even 1 Best Picture winner which wasn't in English?
Please don't convert my posts in something "narrow-minded". I don't really think that "The Matrix" must be banned just because it was made in Australia. It's really stupid and narrow-minded even to suggest this.

[Kn'thrak]

what i don't get..

Australian movies are considered foreign movies but the actors that star in them are not!

WTF?

[editman]

Originally posted by Kn'thrak
what i don't get..

Australian movies are considered foreign movies but the actors that star in them are not!

WTF?

As long as an Australian/foreign actor/actress appear/work on an English-speaking(?) American movie (no matter how "small" and insignificant the film is), s/he is qualified to join the Academy, hence eligiable to be nominated for the Best Actor/Actress awards. (I think!)

Thus Russell Crowe, Cate Blanchett & Geoffrey Rush can be nominated. Thus Roberto Benigni can win the Best Actor award cos he was in "Down by Law".

[Equinox]

Originally posted by Kn'thrak
what i don't get..

Australian movies are considered foreign movies but the actors that star in them are not!

WTF?

If Aussie film nominates for Oscar (Shine for example), it nominates in Best Picture category, not in the Best Foreign Picture.

[editman]

Originally posted by Equinox
Once again, I didn't said something that you are mentioned in your post. But you can't agree that Best Picture is for english-language film, no matter if it's from Australia or England. For 75 years of Oscar History can you tell me even 1 Best Picture winner which wasn't in English?

Back to my original argument: just because the "tradition" is that only English-language films (you can even go a step further and say Aemrcian live-action films) get Best Picture Awards, it doesn't automatically rule out the possibly of "Spirited Away" taking the Best Animation Awards.

The thing is, it's a new category. So we still need to be how open the Award is/will be. At the moment, I don't think saying "Japanese animes must not be nominated for american awards" is appropriate (my argument is stated in previous posts).

To me, it sounds like "good Italian movie (eg life Is Beautiful) must not be nominated for American awards", or "good wuxia movies ("Crouching Tiger") must not be nominated for American awards".

Sure they may not win in the major categories. But not even "nominated"? Not even worth mentioning in the nomination list as if they never exist, despite the fact that they're acclaimed by American critics and audiences? And doing okay in the box office?

BTW, by Equinox's standard "Sprited Away" is almost a traditional movie:

a) High level of all movie's "components" - not sure about what "components" we're talking about, but it has a beginning, middle and an end. Unlike "Memento", the narrative structure is very traditional.

b) Epic, more than 2 hours long - "Sprited Away" is over 2-hour long

d) Conservative - conservative as in "Nazis' bad, Jews' good", "triumph over disabilities" etc? Okay so "Alice in Wonderland" is not so conservative.

e) Simple story with not-controversial moral - it has. It's a girl's adventures in the land of ancient Gods, with environmental messages scattered across.

f) Politcorectness - environmental messages. How PC is that?

g) Heroism - in Chihiro's character

i) movie take place in the past historic period - sort of

j) wide popularity and decent box-office. - top-grossing movie in Japan of all-time.

so there you go. I'm gonna finish my argument here. We'll see when the Oscar nominations come out.

[MovieDetective]

Originally posted by editman
Back to my original argument: just because the "tradition" is that only English-language films (you can even go a step further and say Aemrcian live-action films) get Best Picture Awards, it doesn't automatically rule out the possibly of "Spirited Away" taking the Best Animation Awards.

Exactly. All movies should have the equal means to be nominated for every category. The whole argument that they "shouldn't" is groundless and idiotic.

[Uri]

Originally posted by Equinox
2) Japanese animes probably have some artistic merits (like American comic books), but that's not enough for Oscar and recognition of American audiences. And not only American. When I saw "Metropolis" there were only 3 men in theater except me for this movie. How can you talk about Oscar if nobody don't want to watch Japanese animes outside Japan? 3) I don't know about the future, but mainstream American audiences is not enjoying Japanese anime now. Spirited Away didn't get wide release because in limited release there weren't too many people on screenings, unlike Crouching Tiger.

Spirited Away won Golden Bear, which to anybody, but American, means more than an Oscar. Oscars are just the oldest movie awards and with that comes tradition and media recognition on which marketing is build upon. To me Oscars are loosing their seriousness gradually for past 10 years and furthermore winning an Oscar for best movie doesn't guarantee an all around excellent movie.

Talking about anime in USA. Problem is simply a state of mind of mainstream audience, cause they still see animation as kiddie stuff and nothing more. That's why 1st Pokemon ruled the USA boxoffice and Princess Mononoke flopped. It starts in the mind of studio execs. Warner saw Pokemon as kiddie movie and did marketing in along those lines. Disney figured that Mononoke is not a kiddie movie and didn't know how else to market it. Same story goes with Spirited Away.

Since rest of the world is dominated by American distributor networks with offices and represantatives all over the place, movies, which are not doing well in USA, are having hard time getting around, because they don't have proper distributing and marketing channels. It's all connected and this is the main reason we (non american movie buffs or just plain movie buffs of quality cinema) are getting pissed off with American way of treating non american movies. If it doens't do well at USA boxoffice, it's not worth seeing. That's the message we are getting, while we are robbed for so many quality movies by non American standards.

Let's take for example Mononoke, which was shown in Slovene cinema with Disney dubbing, cause it came through Miramax distribution. Why? Cause it's easier and cheaper for local distributor, who already has established relationship with Miramax to get this movie, rather than getting it directly from Japan. Same goes for 90% of all other non American movies.

So the solution is to gradually change general state of mind about animation. Disney's animation came out of american musical, whereas anime came out of japanese theatre and European illustration/animation with emphasise on good storytelling not so much entertaining audience with goofy characters, dancing and singing acts.

Don't get me wrong. I love classical Disney, but as I gorw older i'm fed up with the fact they still make animated movies mostly aimed for kids and teenagers. In the old days teenagers were not even into animation, cause they thought it's only for kids so they were embarresed to even go see it. Later on those kids grew up and kept enjoying Disney animation from their youth and continue watching it with their own kids. Then success of Simpsons, followed by Cartoon Network started trend of cartoons for older audiences. South Park is not supposed to be seen by kids or young teenagers! But feature animation is still mostly for kids and families (and lately for teenagers), with few exceptions like South Park movie. Anime was also mostly for kids in the early days, but for last 30 years they've widened the genre from action, fantasy and SciFi to romance, drama, crime, thriller, horror and even porn (hentai).

Distributors must start showing more guts with marketing and audience should be more willing to broaden their horizons. And with animation Oscar category, hopefully people will get to see more diverse animation features in the future.